Cross Cultural Chinese Parenting 101
Episode 1
[00:00:00] Hi, everybody. 大家好. My name's John Yoder and I want to welcome you to this podcast, Cross-Cultural Chinese Parenting. Sherry and I had the privilege of living in China for 13 years. In 2004 and 2005 we lived in Tianjin. And 2006 to 2017 we lived in Beijing. 我是北京国际教会的张文牧师.Meaning, I am Pastor Zhang Wen of the Beijing International Christian Fellowship. My wife Sherry taught English at 北京工业大学(Beijing Gongye Daxue) and at 第二外国语学院(Di Er Wai Guoyu Xueyuan).
For the past seven years, we've been back in our home in the Minneapolis area. But during our 13 years in the People's Republic of China, we had the opportunity to meet a lot of wonderful people like you. We have had the opportunity to travel to so many [00:01:00] places across China.
[00:01:01] We've been to the big cities, and we've also been to the nongcun, to the countryside. We've talked to people with PhDs and wealthy business people, and we've also talked with farmers and other rural folks. whose reading skills were not that strong. And we have loved every minute of it, and we have enjoyed all the people that we met along the way.
[00:01:25] Sherry and I are Beifangren, northerners, so I want to tell you first about places in China's Dongbei that we visited. We've been to Shijiazhuang, Handan, Dalian, Shenyang, Changchun. We've been to Harbin, We've been to Yanji and to Tumen, and from Tumen, we had our picture taken right across the border from North Korea.
[00:01:50] In Inner Mongolia, we've been to Hailar, Manzhouli, right on the Mongolian border, and at Eerguna, where we stayed at a Mongolian yurt. [00:02:00]
We've also visited places to the west of Beijing. We've been to Xi'an, Taiyuan, Xining, Urumqi, Kashgar, Chengdu, and Kunming.
And we've also been to plenty of places to the south of Beijing. [00:02:16] We've been to Qingdao, Nanjing, Wuxi, and Zhejiang. From Chongqing we sailed down the Yangtze River, gone through the locks of the Three Gorges Dam.
And we've been to Wuhan, before any Westerners really knew that Wuhan was a place to know about. We've been to Shanghai, Fuzhou, Guangzhou, Shenzhen, Hangzhou, Nanning, Sanya, and of course, Hong Kong.
[00:02:43] You have made for us more tasty homemade foods than I can count. And you've taken us to more restaurants of more varieties than I can possibly remember. At New Year's, you've given us the opportunity to bao jiaozi, to make [00:03:00] dumplings and to celebrate a pretty noisy time together.
And, of course, you have introduced us to Southeast Asia's most fragrant fruit, durian, which, as you know, people either love it or hate it. [00:03:15] And I need to be honest, Sherry and I didn't particularly love it, but it is a very memorable taste of Asia.
My wife, Sherry, taught English to university students, usually freshmen. And we estimate that over the course of her tenure, she had about 1,200 different students. And in classes of 20 to 25, we invited all 1,200 of them to our apartment for a full Western meal. It was a delightful time.
We estimate that Sherry baked 10,000 brownies in her tiny convection oven in our apartment, by which she earned the love and respect of teachers and [00:04:00] administration and students alike. And once a year, I would don my bright red suit and go to the university as Shengdan Lauren, Santa Claus, and would distribute gifts to all of those students.
I was one of the pastors of the Beijing International Christian Fellowship. We had 3,000 people. We had folks from 70 different countries, and we had services in 11 different languages including English, Mandarin, and Cantonese, and it was a great opportunity for us to meet people from around the world.
[00:04:34] We're back in the US now, and there are 5.5 million of you here, meaning there are that many Chinese Americans living in the United States. Last I knew, there were 30,000 to 50,000 of you in Minnesota. Not quite as numerous as you are on either coast, but still a lot of people. At its peak, there were 3,000 Chinese international students at the University of Minnesota, which [00:05:00] is about half of the international student population.
I am so glad that you've taken the time to listen into this podcast. Your listening in says a lot about you. It tells me that you deeply love your adult children and grandchildren. It tells me that you want to see each one of them discover happy, fulfilling lives. But it also says to me that not everything turned out the way you wanted, the way you hoped.
[00:05:33] And now that your children are out of the nest, they've left the home, your influence over their daily lives is greatly diminished, and you're out of fresh ideas about what to do next.
I love talking to parents like you. I've been listening to parents like you for years, both in Beijing and back here in Minneapolis. [00:05:53] I understand the struggle that you face in parenting, because you grew up in one culture, and your [00:06:00] kids have grown up in a very different culture, and it can be really hard for you to understand each other. Specifically, it can be hard to convey the value of the Christian faith to children whose needs are very different from yours.
[00:06:14] At the same time, I've also been listening to your American born adult children. The struggles that they face and the struggles that you face are very different. I know the things that you say about your adult kids, but I also know the things that your adult kids say about you.
[00:06:36] Both sides feel misunderstood by the other. Both sides see ways the other ought to change. And so, first generation parents say, "John, how do I change my kids?" And your American born kids say, "John, how do I change my parents?" And here's the thing, You're both right.
In that process [00:07:00] of talking with multicultural young adults across the US [00:07:04] and in Canada, Britain, Europe, I have encountered marvelous young adults, ones like your kids, but ones that deeply love Jesus Christ and they're walking on a good life path. You can hear their voices on our other podcast, Cross Cultural Voices. It's a sister podcast to this one. And it's designed specifically for multicultural young adults who are at least open to exploring Christianity as a way to a better life.
[00:07:36] Now, for those of you who ask, "John, Reverend Yoder, how do I change my kids?" Here's the answer. You can't. I can't.
Talk to any marriage counselor and they will tell you that if a couple comes in and both people says, "I want you to change my spouse", they're going to [00:08:00] fail. Marriage counseling works when two people come in and each of them say, "Well, this isn't quite working out, are there ways I can change to improve our marriage?"
[00:08:14] So, your kids are watching you, and if they believe that your goal is to fit them inside your cultural mold, they will push back, they will resist. But if they see in you a willingness to learn, a willingness to adapt, maybe even to apologize about some things in the past you wish you wouldn't have said or done, [00:08:39] then they're likely to respond much more positively to you. A little humility goes a long way.
Please understand that when I ask you to change, I am not saying in any way that there is something wrong with the language or the culture of your homeland. There isn't. [00:09:00] There isn't necessarily anything wrong with your parenting style. [00:09:04] It's probably the parenting style you learned because it works well in your home country. Here's the problem. You don't live in your home country anymore.
Your kids attended American schools, and they learned a completely different set of rules than you learned when you grew up. When Sherry and I lived in China for 13 years, we had to learn how to speak Mandarin, how to eat with chopsticks, how to ride crowded subways, and how to use the squatty potty. [00:09:36] If we had kids who attended Chinese schools, They would be preparing for the gaokao college entrance exams, which are completely different and unrelated from Western college exam systems.
I know you understand that. You understood that when you move to the U. S. or to Canada or to Britain, you're going to have to learn English.[00:10:00] You knew that the traffic regulations would be different. Maybe you'd have to learn to drive on a different side of the road. You knew that the IRS would be different than the tax systems back home. But there was a change that many of you never anticipated. And that was your children wouldn't think like you.
[00:10:22] And for many of you, that has been the most disheartening, discouraging part of moving to the U. S. I hear your frustration. I understand your pain. Many of you come from cultures where older men are very highly regarded as authority figures. And now, you've come to a country that empowers young single women.
[00:10:48] And I know that's very hard for many to accept. And it can be really hard for you to accept that in certain ways, you need to learn how from them. I also [00:11:00] know that many of today's young people aren't walking on a good path, but there is still a need for both generations to learn from one another.
That's why we've launched these two separate podcasts.[00:11:15] This one is called Cross Cultural Parenting and I will be your primary presenter. The other podcast is called Cross Cultural Voices. In it, we've assembled a team of young people that you can trust. I personally vet every author, every speaker, every host who shares on that platform.
It has been just a joy for me to get to know so many gifted multicultural young people who can speak effectively to the lives of your adult children.[00:11:46] These are all people who accept the Word of God as truth, who live out godly daily lives, and that will speak to people of any denominational background. [00:12:00]
Just a brief word about the background of our podcast. They are ministries of the non profit organization, Immigrant Ministry Connections, which I founded in 2019. [00:12:11] Its purpose is to share God's love with those in their first and second generations living in the U. S. and in other Western countries. We serve many ethnicities, we serve many denominations, and you can learn more about our beliefs and our history at our website, www.immigrantministry.com.
For all of you who are discouraged about the possibility of the second generation finding their way, I want to share with you a message of hope. [00:12:39] This is the story of one of the marvelous leaders you're going to hear in our other podcast, Sam Chacko pastors Loft City Church in Richardson, Texas.
His family came to the U. S. from India when he was three years old. His dad had a full time job and for decades pastored on the side. [00:13:00] And over time, Sam became the English language youth pastor of that Indian church.
[00:13:06] The young people really responded well to Sam and to his wife. They responded so well that a group of churches in the Dallas area invited Sam to consider starting an English language second generation church. Things began to go well, but they ended with a lot of hurt. And a lot of [00:13:28] wounding.
SAM CHACKO: In 2003, I met my wife, moved to Dallas, got married, a series of events, hard events in the beginning season of our marriage, but we joined an Indian community here in Dallas and really fell in love with that community and thought that we were going to be there for a long time.
[00:13:45] We, because of my dad having been in ministry so long and me having done seminary work, I started preaching at the church. I started serving with the high school kids and it was a sweet community and we thought this is where God was calling [00:14:00] us. A few years later the church asked if we would consider being the youth pastors of the church and we said yes, the church said yes, the board said yes, unfortunately there were people in the church that were opposed to it, a lot of it for cultural reasons.
[00:14:12] We didn't have youth pastors in India. We don't need youth pastors here. The moment we get a youth pastor here, the kids will not want to worship with us and they will have their own service. And then they'll start inviting people who are part of different cultures and we'll lose our culture and identity as an Indian church.
[00:14:26] And unfortunately, our names are caught in the middle of it. And it got really ugly to the point where some anonymous letters are going out. Things were being said that the weekend that our second son was born, my wife and I left that Indian church and we thought. Um, we thought ministry was done and we knew that we would never go back to an Indian church. [00:14:46] And so we in many ways felt like exiles from our own community as well as not fitting in to the majority community that was around us.
JOHN YODER: [00:14:55] Speaker: Can you hear the sadness in Sam's voice, the pain in the [00:15:00] last few sentences? That he shared there. Sam and his wife were disillusioned with the church. They doubted if they would ever find any church where they would fit in and be accepted, whether it was Indian, American, or anything else.
[00:15:15] Would they ever find a place where they'd be at home? Now, some of you might say, "John, hang on for a minute. You told us you were gonna give us a story of hope, a positive story. This is not a story of hope". Hang on. We haven't come to the end of the story yet. Sam and his wife went through a period of healing, but after they did, they started Loft City Church and saw some amazing things.
[00:15:40] So here's the rest of Sam's story.
SAM CHACKO:[00:15:42] So, series of events, some of those kids from the Bible study, that church came and asked if we would do a Bible study with them. Eventually that Bible study just starts growing, skipping a lot of Parts here, but we see that Bible study grow to 150 [00:16:00] and then we start debating a couple years in if we're a church or a Bible study, there are people who are coming to our Bible study.
[00:16:07] We're not going anywhere else.
And we start praying and discerning what God was calling of us and discern that God was calling us to plant a church. And we did all the work to plant a church, found a space, did the renovations. And right before we were launching several. Pastors in the Indian community began to attack us where they just started saying that we were a cult leader out of fear of losing their kids, and we thought we would have over a hundred people to join us when we launched and we Ended up with about 20 people on launch day.
[00:16:36] It was one of the hardest seasons, and it was really hard, it was really difficult. And in God's grace and kindness, he blessed the church. We struggled with 20 people for a couple years, and then in that season, God started bringing the nations to us. And today, our church has Close to 30 some ethnicities, people from almost every background.
JOHN YODER: [00:16:57] Speaker: Now, isn't that a great story? [00:17:00] Sam and his wife went through a difficult time, but they planted a multicultural church that today has people from more than 30 different ethnic backgrounds. In this story, Jesus is the big hero, but Sam and his wife are heroes, too. But there's a hero missing from this story: the first generation.
For years, Sam was not welcomed back into first generation Indian churches because he had something that was worshipping in English. And the fear is that the second generation would lose their love for the Hindi language and for the Indian culture. God has used Sam and his wife and his team to bring hope and healing to a lot of people, but God did it without the involvement of the first generation.
It doesn't have to be that way. I can tell you other stories where first generation parents fully empowered their children. These [00:18:00] parents number one priority was that their children fall in love with Jesus, that they lead healthy lives, that they walk a good life path.
And it was okay with these parents if that meant their children preferred English, had their own leadership team, and used a church name that wasn't even remotely similar to their parents church.
[00:18:25] That's the decision that you need to make. Jesus Christ has all power in heaven and on earth, and he is changing lives. I am seeing him raise up many young leaders like Sam. But the question to you is, Do you want to be part of that?
Brothers and sisters, I know that the words that I have just spoken are very hard to hear. [00:18:49] I'm sure you're already aware of all of this at some level. Letting go of expectations regarding your children is a process and it takes time. [00:19:00] So I want to encourage you to keep listening in. I want you to listen in to the Cross Cultural Voices podcast for young people. It will help you understand what the gospel sounds like in ways that are attractive to the newer generation.
[00:19:15] And I want you to keep listening in to this Cross Cultural Parenting Podcast. We are going to discover in simple terms, how your kids think, how they learn, and the issues that matter to them.
I'd like you to request our free guidebook, Five Steps to Influencing Your Adult Children for Christ. When you do, you will have my email address. [00:19:38] I'd love to hear from you. I'd love to hear your questions, your feedback, your needs. Friends, there is no other podcast quite like this. You and I are on a journey together, and Jesus Christ will be with us every step of the way.
