Guiding Your Family toward Emotional Health, episode 11
Nudging Friends toward Emotional Health
John Yoder: Do you have a friend who has moved to the United States from around the world whose family is struggling with mental health issues? Do you see them failing to take advantage of the resources available to them? I want to explain to you in just a few minutes why that is, and the action step you can take to help.
Hi everybody. Pastor John Yoder here. Welcome back to our series “Guiding Your Family toward Emotional Health”. If you grew up in the United States or any other Western country, even if you and your family never availed yourself of mental health resources, you know they exist and people who have used them.
But that is not true in most cultures around the world. For 13 years, I lived in China, which is a reasonably wealthy and well-educated culture. But most Chinese people do not know a counselor. They do not know a friend who's ever spoken with one, [00:01:00] and they have not received education in just basic emotional health vocabulary.
In addition to that, most cultures around the world have a very strong sense of shame in talking about emotional health issues. So there is hesitancy to talk about anxiety or depression, much less something like suicide or sexual abuse. No one in their family has talked about it. No one in their church talks about it, and therefore, there is a strong hesitancy to talk with anyone about these issues.
Here's where you come in. If you are listening to me right now, first of all, we know you're an English speaker. We also know that because you listen to podcasts, you are the kind of person that trusts people you've never met before. This means that either you're a Westerner or you're bilingual and bicultural, you know how to think like a Westerner and like somebody from a global culture. That makes you the kind of gateway person that a first [00:02:00] generation immigrant might need to nudge them in the direction of mental health resources.
If you think exclusively like a Westerner, all you have to do to point your friend to help is give them the phone number of a clinic, the street address of a provider, or the website of a trusted ministry. You made a referral. You did your job.
If you are dealing with people from global cultures, it's not enough to give contact information. The best course of action may be for you to say, Let us call that counselor together. Let me go with you to that first visit. Let me introduce you to my friend.
We have designed our resources to be as user-friendly as possible. So if you visit www.immigrantministry.com/ccp (that stands for Cross-Cultural Parenting), you will find four resources. You will find this podcast. You'll find [00:03:00] transcripts of this podcast that you could print out and use for lessons. You will find our Facebook group, Cross-Cultural Parenting, where you can engage with pastors and counselors. And you'll find online directories of counselors in many different languages and in every part of the country.
But once again, don't just give them the website link. Explore it with them. Or say to them. I am joining this Facebook group, Why don't you join with me? I'm listening to this podcast. Why don't you listen in, and let's discuss it together? That is more likely to get a positive response than simply giving them the link.
In preparation for today's episode, I interviewed a Christian counselor by the name of Christine Chow. Christine has experience helping people from global cultures that normally would not access mental health resources. As you listen to what she shares, you will find [00:04:00] practical steps that you can take in helping your friends as well. And I want to start out by letting Christine introduce herself.
Christine Chow: My name is Christine and I'm, or originally from Malaysia. I'm in my empty nest stage in life. I have a son, he's in New York. He is grown and flown. He is about to get married this September. I can't believe that. My husband and I serve at a church plant called New City of Nations.
It's a multiethnic church in the Twin Cities. And my husband's originally from Hong Kong, but we've both been here in the United States for many years, and I work as a counselor at Cedar Cove.
John Yoder: Christine shares that in many cases, the whole process begins when an immigrant family has a crisis they cannot resolve, and it's usually about the misbehavior of a child. They've used all the resources that they [00:05:00] know and nothing works. And in desperation, they reach out to a counselor. Once they see that counseling has results and that these are people that can be trusted, they then share with everyone else in their circle that they had a positive result. Here's how Christine begins those sessions.
Christine Chow: How I do my counseling is that I might start with the child. But a child really effectively has very little control over their world. Like even when they eat to when they sleep, a lot of times it's not within their control. The younger they are, the less control they have of that. And so, often a lot of parents and it, this is not just immigrant families, but even American families, when they put their child into counseling, they're in a crisis mode. They often don't come until it's crisis level. And it would've been easier if they had come earlier, but then oftentimes it is, Help me.
They really do love their children. It aches them to see all this troubles. And so they, there's a genuine heart to want to help and to bring change. But it's more from a standpoint of, I don't know what to do. Can you fix this? I have to begin to do the slow work of communicating to the parents that they also need to change.
John Yoder: Christine works with parents by intake questions and debriefing sessions, and in those sessions the parents learn as much about emotional health as their children.
Christine Chow: How I start my counseling is, I often start with a parent intake and I'm getting the full story. Then when I meet with their children, I would have parent debriefing sessions where I'm sharing the work that I've done with their children. And in those debriefing sessions I use the parents' language. Are you seeing this? Is this how you're [00:07:00] experiencing it, and specific phrases that they can relate with.
And when they feel like I get them, especially regarding their frustration, the shame, it's like, My child thinks this is such a big problem, when it's not where we come from. Life is so much harder. Why can't they deal with this small problem? Why are they so weak? So even things like that.
But I would point, I would validate that. But then I would also say, But your child hasn't lived there where you were, so they don't have that framework. And because they're more immature and younger, expecting them to have that framework is just like you're communicating and you're missing one another. And it's actually ebbing away your connection, your relationship with them.
And I'll point to examples whether child's rejecting them, really being very disrespectful, it's very [00:08:00] painful. And would you be interested in just debriefing about how to find another way to reach your child? They always, almost always say yes.
John Yoder: Christine knows that these parents already understand the concept of learning another language and entering another culture. She uses that analogy to help them understand that they need to enter the culture and world of their children.
Christine Chow: And I also use the cross-cultural analogy. You've had to learn so many new ways of functioning in this new culture. And I'll name some of those things that are successes. So I start with what is good that they have done, and I pull them further along. You've done this, and now this is more personal because your child's in this new culture. But because you've crossed cultures well here, this is just one more thing, and I know you can do it. I'm here to walk along with you.
I always start with validating [00:09:00] their perspective, but then I always introduce a question. How do you think your child sees this? And I couch it in a sense of you're putting on your child's perspective. Sometimes with more resistant parents, I could even say, I could see your child's not getting where you are wanting to, where you want them to go?
One of the things we need to help your child to do is, in counseling we call it perspective, taking other people's perspective, that would be such an important skill, and they'll say, Yeah.
John Yoder: Christine shares how that step alone, getting parents to understand the perspective of their children makes everything else easier and makes communication more obvious.
Christine Chow: It's amazing how when they are able to see it from their child's perspective, I don't tell them how to change. Their way of interacting with their child, just in a directive way. I say, okay, so you [00:10:00] know, what message did you really wanna send? How could you send that message in a more effective way now that you have your child's perspective?
So it's more inductive when it's coming from them. They own it more. And a part of my aim is to coach them. If I tell them, it feels like such a foreign thing that they have to live up to. But if it's coming from their own ideas, it feels more accessible. They're able to do it better.
And so from their ideas, I tweak it. What about this? What about that? What do you do when you feel like your child's not respecting you? Why are they not? What's their culture like? And how do you move them towards respect in a way where they would buy into it? because commanding is not working, is it?
One of the great questions I always ask is, How is that working out for you? So they are [00:11:00] always inductively brought into self-evaluation, but this is not working. Then that's when I asked, Would you be open to consider or brainstorm different ways we could go about this? We still wanna get to that aim, but how do we get there?
John Yoder: That is how Christine begins with one parent or with one family. And once one person who is an insider to a culture gets it, they can explain to others who are inside their social circle why dealing with emotional issues is important. The goal is that within any local church, the leadership creates a culture where it is okay to talk about these things. Christine explains what that kind of church culture looks like.
Christine Chow: I would say rather than having the sense of shame over our struggles, whether it's emotional or mental, we should [00:12:00] create a culture where it's like just acknowledge. But the Bible says we all struggle between the here and now, and that's just a given fact.
And whether it's leaders or non-leaders, we are all struggling in different ways and we need one another. And how can we see that? And not come at it with judgment, but come at it with let's love and walk together and be okay with struggling. Be okay with weaknesses. Be especially okay with confession, repentance, forgiveness, reconciliation. All these things are so much the heart of the gospel. Be able to be given permission to live that out corporately with one another is actually Christ's aim for the body of Christ.
So if our pastor models that, if our leaders model that, create a church culture [00:13:00] that enable those things to be lived out in a very authentic way, then I think that it will actually be very helpful for those who are especially struggling with emotional and mental health.
John Yoder: Christine shares the power of stories. Bible truth alone can be very abstract, but when someone first outside the church and then hopefully somebody later on inside the church shares their story, it validates it for everyone else and creates the climate where they can be open about their issues too.
Christine Chow: Oftentimes when we struggle, we think nobody else has this. So I can't really share this. And that's like the number one thing to get you to isolate. Then you’re really struggling alone. And then all your thoughts about the problem, all your feelings about it, is just evolving around you with no other input coming in to challenge that or to help with that.
[00:14:00] The more we can disseminate stories that are relevant to where they're at, Hey, I struggle like that too. That is so real. This is a common thing. And it just normalizes the struggle, which really helps with the shame as people are sharing in real time way where and how they found help.
It even normalizes the action of seeking help. Bringing what we're struggling into the light rather than remaining in darkness, hidden. If we go at it from just like a presentation, Here are the points of why you should do this from a more impersonal level, it could just land as head knowledge. Stories have a way into the heart of people where preaching can't go.
John Yoder: Christine shares that in a communal setting where one person gets it and understands the value of emotional health, [00:15:00] and then they open up and share their stories, it opens the floodgates for others to engage as well.
Christine Chow: If there's any creative way in which you can get your people to come together and gently lead them to be sharing their problems with one another by eliminating the shame factor, making it a safe place. You'll see that, especially with communal cultures, that first step is sometimes all you need to lit that light. Because they are inherently communal, and so they know how to take it the rest of the way. But it's just that first step that is so important.
John Yoder: Folks, I understand that dealing with these issues is stressful and uncomfortable. But if we deal with them, there is healing. On the other side, there's also another benefit, and that is keeping our young people.
Your children are going to schools where they are learning a lot of vocabulary about mental health. If your church does not address these [00:16:00] issues, it will feel irrelevant to your children. And Christine shares that she has seen people leave one church to go to another simply because that new church was willing to address emotional health issues.
Christine Chow: I have a counselee that came away from a monocultural church, because that when she was struggling, it wasn't okay, for her to struggle. And it hurt her so much. She left and now she's attending an American church. The reason that she was drawn to that church is because the American pastor spoke about, I went for counseling because I was struggling with this and this.
It's just like I have never heard my pastor at the Monocultural Church say this. Suddenly the shame is lifted. So even beginning to tell stories from people that I've counseled that are coming away from monocultural churches and how [00:17:00] refreshing it is for them to have permission to begin to take their struggle to a one-anothering level rather than hide could be very encouraging for the leaders.
John Yoder: Friends. I do not share that last segment because I believe that American churches are better than immigrant churches. I do not believe that. I have worshiped in more than 80 different immigrant churches of all kind of ethnicities. And I love worshiping with you no matter the language you use, whether I have a translator and I understand you or not. I know that God is with you. God is honored regardless of your language or culture.
But if you are going to win your children to Christ, you're going to need to do it in English, and you're going to need to address issues of mental health, race, and gender, because these are the issues your children face.
If your children hear about Jesus, and Jesus can't speak English, [00:18:00] and Jesus doesn't know what to do about mental health and transgender classmates, your children will conclude that Jesus is not relevant to them. And the great danger is not that they will leave your church, but that they will leave the faith.
I know that is not what you want for your kids. I know you want your kids to fall deeply in love with Jesus Christ. And so I want to encourage you to listen to the words that Christine has shared and become the kind of a church that openly discusses these issues of emotional health.
Some of you are those gateway people. You speak English, you listen to a podcast, and you've earned trust in the life of one person or the life of one church. Please use your influence to help your friends connect with help. Don't just give them a phone number or a website. Go with them. Visit with them together.
Use our resources www.immigrantministry.com/ccp, but look at them together. Visit them together. Listen to our podcast together and discuss them.
At the beginning of Acts chapter nine, Saul was the great persecutor of the church. But on the road to Damascus, Jesus appeared to him and Saul came to faith in Christ. But the church did not know that. The church was still afraid of him, and it took the introduction of Barnabas before they would trust him.
This is Acts 9:26-27: And when Saul had come to Jerusalem, he tried to join the disciples, but they were all afraid of him and did not believe that he was a disciple. But Barnabas took him and brought him to the apostles, and he declared to them how he had seen the Lord on the road, and that he had spoken [00:20:00] to him, and how he had preached boldly at Damascus in the name of Jesus.
Barnabas took a man who was feared, maybe even hated by the church, and turned him into a beloved brother and an ally. In the same way, some of you are working with Christians who distrust any kind of mental health resources. And you might be that Barnabas who says, Let me introduce you to somebody that I know and trust. And that might be one of the most transformative ministries you have in the life of that person.
So friends, be thinking, be praying about who you might share these resources with. I'll talk to you next time.
