Friendship in Black and White, episode 3
www.CrossCulturalVoices.org
Krista Bontrager: If you're not black or you're not white, what are you? Where do you fit in the conversation?, Or even if you are black, but you're an immigrant from Africa, you're left out of the conversation, because this is largely a conversation between the descendants of slaves and white people.
Monique Duson: And, I can take that a step further. When I was much more accepted or allowed to be a part of the larger black narrative and black conversation when I was progressive, when I did believe in abortion, when I was for all of the social welfare programs and things like that, I was seen as being black.
Now that I have different views that are more aligned biblically and what many people would say are conservative values or conservative ideals, I am not considered black by the black people.
John Yoder: Hi everybody! John Yoder here, your host for Cross-Cultural Voices. Welcome back to part three of our conversation with Monique Duson and Krista Bontrager, titled Friendship in Black and White.
I want you to know that this conversation about cross-cultural friendships and identity does not end with Monique and Krista's story today. Next week we have a new series coming up that I think you'll want to dial into. It's called Unseen: When Your Cultural Identity is Devalued. It follows the story of Michelle Lee-Barnewall, a second-generation Korean American. She was the only Asian kid in a class of 300 in Hibbing, Minnesota, where she was picked on because of her appearance.
In her book, A Longing to Belong, Michelle writes about coming to peace with her multicultural identity, even if it is not highly valued and appreciated by those around her.
Monique and Krista's story lasts for three weeks, and our engagement with Michelle's story is going to last for another four weeks. That’s seven weeks altogether. These seven episodes run parallel to our seven-episode Thursday series, Christian Compassion without Culture Wars. In that series, you will hear from the two books that these three ladies wrote. Monique and Krista co-wrote Walking in Unity. Michelle wrote A Longing to Belong. You'll hear some quotes from their books.
You will also hear live interview quotes from diverse Christian leaders talking about building robust cross-cultural relationships without lapsing into culture wars. All of our podcasts, their transcripts, and our blog are available on our website, www.CrossCulturalVoices.org.
And now let's listen into the conclusion of Monique and Krista's story.
Monique Duson: Fast forward. We started CFBU in 2020. We started walking together physically in 2018. Started the ministry 2020. Last year, we released the book. How the heck did we get to the book stage? I was so surprised. I think I was more surprised than you. No, you were more surprised than me. Let's be honest.
Krista Bontrager: I think that in the big picture, God had a plan for all of the conflict and all of the unusual circumstances that happened in bringing us together. I think that for me, the big breakthrough moment was just understanding that we were family first, that we were a spiritual family and that we were sisters in the Lord first. And once we had that solid foundation, I feel like things got a lot better for us.
And the book was really an extension of all of those hard conversations and all of the insights that we had as a result of studying scripture together, and not being dominated by the cultural narrative and all the ways that the culture wanted to train us of how to think about race and talk about race and division and injustice.
But all right, let's go back to the Bible. Let's read this. What insights do we get? What's the language of the Bible? Walking in Unity, our book, was really just an extension of all of those discussions, and our attempt to share what we've learned with other people.
Monique Duson: I definitely echo that. I think much like why we started the ministry, which was to share the idea of family, how the Bible talks about us as Christians and as believers in this familial language, starting CFBU to go and share that, and help other Christians to understand regardless of skin color, we are family. The book was the direct extension of that.
It was, hey, look, when you look at the macro, United States, at this larger picture, there's this black/white division. Are we ever going to get to family? Are we ever going to get to unity? And then you have us and our story really serving as a microcosm of what we see in the larger culture, this black/white division, culturally distinct. Wanting to, at times, really just fight for the right to be right.
And then we, because of scripture and the Holy Spirit, actually began to move toward each other. And Walking in Unity really is the story of how the Lord helped us walk toward each other, when it would have been easier to walk away. And how we traverse that road.
Krista Bontrager: How we overcame cultural differences, the generational differences, the ethnic differences, and really started to understand our identity in Christ and all of the work that Jesus did on the cross, and that there was a fundamental unity between us as Christians that we didn't have to work for. We didn't have to fight for. It was just already there. Unity was our starting point that Jesus had already accomplished. And then we were talking about how do we maintain that unity?
Ephesians 4:1-3, the Apostle Paul talks about maintaining the unity. Okay. How do we do that? We do that through forgiveness and repentance and patience and telling each other the truth and these kinds of things that God has been instructing his people to do for thousands of years. Oh, some of these answers are actually a lot easier than what the culture is offering.
Monique Duson: Yes. I also think it's just hitting me now. When Paul tells us in Ephesians, how to maintain the unity through forgiveness and repentance. Why do we need that?
Because conflict is gonna come. There, there are times when things aren't going to be easy, but we must as brothers and sisters remember that, one, I need to forgive because I will need forgiveness. And two, I must also be willing to repent. I must tell the truth. There will be lies, but how do I live my life from a position of truth telling when it might be easier to tell a lie?
That idea of going again, bearing with one another, not just kicking people to the side. It's so easy to cancel someone, to dox someone, but that isn't how we live. We live very counterculturally.
Krista Bontrager: I think one of the unfortunate aspects to the race conversation in America are differences about really ethnicity, is that if you're not black or you're not white, what are you, where do you fit in the conversation?, Or even if you are black, but you're an immigrant from Africa, you're left out of the conversation, because this is largely a conversation between the descendants of slaves and white people.
Monique Duson: And, I can take that a step further. And say when I was much more accepted or allowed to be a part of the larger black narrative and black conversation when I was progressive, when I did believe in abortion, when I was for all of the social welfare programs and things like that, I was seen as being black.
Now that I have different views that are more aligned biblically and what many people would say are conservative values or conservative ideals, I am not considered black by the black people. I am like white adjacent or, not understanding my blackness, not in touch with my blackness. And yet I'm also not white.
You know what I mean? So it's an interesting place to find yourself when, culturally this over here is my culture. This is, I understand the music, the language, the slang, the dance. I understand the food, all of this way more than I understand some things that come from your culture, but because I've gotten kicked out of that culture a little bit.
And definitely find myself now living in the culture of Christians and Christianity and historic Christianity and things like that, which is, people from every color and culture and things like that.
I guess where I've landed in thinking about, what culture do I fit in when I don't necessarily feel like I fit in this culture, but I don't really feel like I fit in that culture either. Is to really align myself with those who are Kingdom minded, who are Christ-centered, who understand that truly there is neither slave nor free Greek, Jew, Scythian, barbarian, like none of that.
And that doesn't mean that I am giving away my culture. I am still African American still grew up in African American culture, but it isn't the most important thing about me. What is most important about me is the fact that I am a child of God and that I have siblings from all over the world who are also children of God, and the Bible calls us brothers and sisters.
And so when we get together, I can bring food from my culture, and they can bring food or dance or clothing or language from their culture and we can celebrate those things. I don't see a need to become jealous of those things or say you can't do that here. Because here we see that, every ethnicity should have something in it that can also bring glory to God.
Krista Bontrager: I would say to those who may feel like they're left out of the discussion about race, I guess if you look at our book, Walking in Unity, one of the points that we make is that the whole idea of race is just man made. It's an idea that comes out of the Enlightenment.
And biblically speaking, if we wanna think more and more like the Bible and use more language like the Bible, race is not really a biblical idea. The Bible talks about nations and empires and family clans, and regions, tribes, but it doesn't talk about race the way that we talk about race today.
And so I think that if you're, if someone listening to this is feeling left out by the discussion on race, my advice is, if you're a Christian, try to disciple your mind more and more like the Bible and less like the world. Because the world wants to divide us according to race, but that's not how the Bible talks. Try to think about the first thing in your mind about someone else is not what ethnicity are they from, or what nation are they from, but is this person my brother or sister in the Lord?
That ought to be our first thought about the person. And to think about what Monique and I call in our book matters of providence, things like your ethnic heritage, your family heritage, these are second to your identity in Christ and your identity as family members. It's not to say that your cultural background is unimportant, but that it takes a backseat. It's secondary to your identity in Christ. So that's something to maybe for people to reflect on.
Monique Duson: Yeah. And when you're saying that it takes a backseat to our identity in Christ because as believers, as Christians, that is the primary way in which we identify. There's no greater thing for us to be than to be saved, than for us to be Christians, to belong to Christ.
And we would never want there to be disunity because of something that is providential. God providentially designed me, created me to be a woman, to be to bear black skin. And He providentially, created Krista to not have as much melanin as I did. That's a part of his providence. And so we never want to separate because of things that are providentially designed.
As we wrap up, I know you're a parent, we've talked about, and we hit on a little bit about, you have two kids. But when I was first moving into the house, it was a different culture in your home, and I was extremely liberal, extremely progressive. I had, LGBTQ plus identifying friends. I was sympathetic to the ideas of abortion. Definitely sympathetic. And I'm just saying in a lot of agreement with liberal ideas and ideologies.
What would you say to more conservative first-gen parents from around the world who may be struggling as they're sending their children to school and their children may be imbibing or adopting some of these more progressive ideas and they're definitely wanting to protect their children? And unfortunately, their children are in a culture that is deeply swaying them. That undercurrent is really strong in pulling children to ideas that are definitely not conservative.
Krista Bontrager: I think that the first thing I would want first-gen parents to know is that you're going to have to, I know that many of you probably moved to America because of the promise of America and a better life, and that you want the best for your children and you've made sacrifices for them in order to be here.
And I think that's beautiful and wonderful. And my grandfather was an immigrant from Holland, and his parents made big sacrifices to bring their eight children to America. And so I think that's wonderful, but you also have to be in reality about the fact that our universities have largely been captured by Neo-Marxist ideology.
And so when you're making sacrifices to send your kid to college to become a lawyer or a doctor or an accountant or whatever it is that your kid is into, that the American education system is not what it was 20 or 30 years ago. In many fields, if your children are wanting to go into education, psychology, sociology, social work, medicine, law, they are going to encounter formidable obstacles to the Christian faith.
And that is just being in the real world. Their education will, in some ways, be about information and data and learning, but a big component of it is going to be transferring this ideology of Neo-Marxism and this critical social theories into your child's mind and in their way of thinking.
And so what's going to be important for you is to be aware of this. And if your children are in public school now, and if they're younger, to do some things to disciple your children, to help equip them to understand the differences between Christianity and what the world is offering them in their education system.
And I know that's a sad note to end this conversation on. But I want to be honest with you about where our country is in our education system that many of our institutions have been captured by this very progressive and radical sexual agenda, and you need to know that's part of the intention of our education system right now.
Now there are Christians and other people who are trying to fight back. They are trying to go to school board meetings and fight back against this, but those changes will take time if they're successful. Your best line of defense is awareness. And being in reality about it. But also do some things in your home to disciple your children,
Monique Duson: I figured that you would end on, make sure that you disciple your children. And at risk of running very long, can you just give us like a three point? Hey, if I really want to disciple my kid, because I see these things coming in, what would be like just your top three? Hey, if you can't do anything else. What can I do? What are three things I can do to work on my kid to disciple them?
Krista Bontrager: I think the first thing you can do is equip yourself. There's a ton of free resources on the internet that you can look up from Christians. Come follow us at the Center for Biblical Unity. We have a webpage to help network you with other ministries that are solid in the faith. They can help equip and train you in these things.
But some of the issues you're going to have to be in conversation with your kids about is issues of sexuality and homosexuality and transgenderism. You're going to have some conversations with them about life, both in the womb, and what we're doing with in vitro fertilization, surrogacy, abortion, That's a whole big issue. Plus end of life issues, such as how do we value the elderly? Our culture is really struggling with those issues.
And then the third thing is money and economics and inequalities--how to think about that the reality that there's rich people and poor people. And work and a work ethic and what does the Bible have to say about those issues. Those are be three big areas to think about.
You can go resourced. You can come to the Center for Biblical Unity. And we'll get you connected with other ministries. But there's a lot of free resources out there that we can get you connected to, to help equip yourself.
Secondly, I would say is start doing daily Bible reading with your children. Start out, maybe 20, 30 minutes a day, read one chapter of the Bible together, go through books of the Bible, just read and discuss together. Your children need to read the Bible. They will not start magically reading the Bible when they turn 18. Having and teaching them and displaying for them a daily rhythm of reading the Bible together helps them really read the Bible. Because so many of them are turning away from the Bible, without even ever having read much of it in big chunks and in context. So that would be a second thing.
So there was equipping yourself, starting a daily Bible reading habit as a family, and third, I would say, is requiring regular church attendance in your home. Being involved, showing a good example to your children of how to serve, and figure out what is your kid passionate about? Is there a way that they can serve in their local church doing that thing? But helping them understand the importance of a habit of local church involvement.
Monique Duson: Resource yourself Bible daily Bible reading and making sure that you're involved in a church. I think that's helpful.
Thanks for having this conversation with me. And it was a good time! You guys, you can find out more information about us, Krista and myself at www.centerforbiblicalunity.com or on social media at Center for Biblical Unity on YouTube, Facebook, and Instagram, or Biblical_Unity on Twitter. We thank you so much for joining us, and God bless.
John Yoder: We want to thank Monique and Krista for sharing that interview with us. I hope that you take to heart the things that Krista shared with us at the end of our time together.
Remember that next week we begin our conversation with Michelle Lee-Barnewall, hearing her story and engaging with her book, A Longing to Belong.
You'll want to make sure that you don't miss out on any of these episodes. You can subscribe to email reminders of upcoming podcasts and other resources on our website, www.CrossCulturalVoices.org. I'll see you next time.
